DNA Connection Between My Paternal Ancestors in Louisiana And The Colonial American Turners of Marion County, South Carolina
There is a DNA connection between my paternal ancestors in Louisiana and the Colonial American Turners of Marion County, South Carolina.
At 23andme, a European American woman is a 32 cM match to me on a paternal segment that is predominantly SubSaharan African with a little bit of Filipino/Austronesian. I just recently learned that she is a descendant of a mixed African, European American Turner family in Marion County, South Carolina. She has a little bit of Sub Saharan African ancestry. I have 18 other AncestryDNA matches that are descendants of Turner families in Marion County, South Carolina.
Aunt Carrie doesn't have any of these matches nor any other matches that descend from a Turner family in Marion County, South Carolina. She is my father's maternal halfsister. Therefore, these don't seem to be matches on my African American Louisianan paternal grandmother Mary Alice Gaines's side. These seem to be matches on my African American Louisianan paternal grandfather Nolan Scott's side.
the following is from Marty Grant who is a descendant of John Turner and Patience Smith:
John Turner was probably born in the 1730's or 1740's, somewhere in eastern North Carolina or perhaps in south-eastern Virginia. The first record we have for him is dated 1769 in Halifax (now Martin) Co., NC. It is possible he was born and raised in that area.
John Turner was a "mulatto man" according to a 1769 deed wherein his wife Patience (Smith) Turner purchased his freedom from Thomas Weathersbee Sr. In later records John was referred to as free colored. Depositions and statements made much later referred to him as being half white and half black. Based on those statements and tentative DNA evidence it appears that John's father was a white man and his mother a black woman, probably a slave at the time. "White" and "Black" are subjective terms regarding race, but in this case "white" means of western European origin while "black" means of African origin. Some descendants claim there is Native American in the family, but I've seen no evidence of that, but it is possible.
The name of John's parents are completely unknown. It isn't known if Turner was his birth name or a name he acquired later in life. No record of him has been found prior to 1769. There were several Turners in Halifax Co., NC in this time period.
John Turner married Patience Smith in the early 1760's, apparently while John was still a slave. Patience's birth date is unknown. Her father's name isn't known, but her mother was Rachel (---) Smith according to statements made a generation or so later. She may have been of Irish origin and been about 1/4 black herself (per the various statements). I have not yet attempted to trace the Smiths of Halifax and Martin Co., NC to see if I can identify her family.
To avoid confusion I should point out that there was another John and Patience Turner in neighboring Northampton County at this time. They are not the same John and Patience. Her maiden name was Lassiter.
On 22 Jul 1769 Thomas Weathersbee, Senior, Planter of Halifax County, sold to Patience Turner, of same place, for 60 pounds, a mulatto man named John. Witnessed by Jonathan Cain, Jesse Bryan, Henry Medford, and William Bryan. (Halifax County, North Carolina Deed Book 11 page 144).
By itself the above deed wouldn't tell us much. However this very same deed was also recorded in the Marion Co., SC Court House about 30 years later. Why was that? Obviously the Turners brought it with them when they moved to South Carolina as proof of John's emancipation. Since he was a "mulatto" it was very important that he could prove that he wasn't a runaway slave. (Marion County Loose Records, published in Pee Dee Queue, Vol. XXVIII, No. 6, Nov-Dec 2004, p. 5)
The section of Halifax County where they lived became Martin County in 1774, but they were already gone by then having moved to what is now Marion Co., SC probably in 1769.
The area they moved to was part of Georgetown District, South Carolina when they arrived.
In 1785 several "counties" were created within Georgetown District. They had no governments of their own at this time. Liberty County covered the region where the Turners lived. Most of the Georgetown County records were lost during the Civil War, so we have precious little data on the Turners between 1769 and 1800.
John Turner is listed on the 1786 tax list in Georgetown District in Prince Frederick Parish. He was taxed for 100 acres.
For the 1790 census John Turner was listed in Georgetown District in Prince George Parish (the census taker didn't refer to the counties within Georgetown). John was the only Turner listed in Prince George Parish. There were six other Turners listed in neighboring Prince Frederick Parish. It is important to note that the Parish lines are almost impossible to figure out. Most of those in neighboring Prince Frederick lived in what is now Florence County and down seem to be related to John Turner. However, two of those listed there were John's sons John (Jr.) and Reuben. They were listed as white.
In 1794 a petition was made by "people of colour" in Georgetown District who were against the imposition of a poll tax against them. The signatures included William Turner, John Turner, Jr., John Turner Sr, Mildred Turner, Jenelayer? Turner, and Catherine Turner. Each signed with a mark. I don't know where this petition can be found. This information was shared with me by Joanne Pezzullo in 2005.
John Turner signed a petition on 5 Dec 1796. This was residents of Liberty and Kingston Counties asking for a new county to be created so they didn't have to travel so far to the court house. John Powers and Samuel Hussey also signed. (Pee Dee Queue, Vol. XXXI, No. 6, Nov-Dec 2007).
On 7 Mar 1797 John Turner and Zachary Cater witnessed a deed from Daniel Miers of Liberty Co., SC to James Myers of same place for two slaves (Protroe, a boy, and Mary). (Marion Co., SC Deed Book A, page 128).
John was mentioned in a deed dated 9 Dec 1797 wherein John Sanders of Liberty County sold 400 acres to Enos Tart for £20. The land was described as beginning at James Blackmon's corner, to Peter Coldor's line, to Thomas Hulan's corner, Ruben Turnor's corner, John Turnor Sr.'s line and Charles Oates line, being part of two grants to John Sanders dated 1 Feb 1793. Witnesses were John Tart and Enos Tart Jr. (Marion Co., SC Deed Book D page 178).
The above deed tells us who several of the Turners neighbors were.
In 1798 Liberty County became Marion District and was no longer part of Georgetown District, effective in 1800.
John was mentioned in a deed dated 16 Jan 1799 wherein John Sanders sold 300 acres to Levi Solomon. The land was described as joining John Turner Senior's corner, up Betheys (Bethea's) road to Thomas Hulens corner, thence joining Enos Tart's line, then to Turners again, being part of a grant to John Sanders dated 7 Feb 1792. (Marion Co., SC Deed Book G page 33).
Stephen Turner was born ca 1809/10 per his age on the 1860 census (50). His 1870 entry gives his age as 64 (born ca 1805/06), while his 1880 entry gives 64 again (ca 1815/16). I don't know which of these is most accurate. Donald W. Turner gives Stephen's birth date as 24 Jan 1813 which fits right in there, but I don't know the primary source for that date.
Donald W. Turner told me of his family tradition about the origin of this family:
Dad says that he was always told that Stephen & our line of Turners came from the Charleston area, after Stephen arrived with a boatload of Irish immigrants. Stephen supposedly was a "woolen draper" and was teaching the immigrants this trade (or some other).
The above is very interesting, but Stephen himself was born in South Carolina as proven by the 1860, 1870 and 1880 census. His own 1880 census entry shows that both his parents were born in South Carolina as well. Family tradition often gets mixed up over the generations, and this may be such a case. The story may be absolutely accurate, but not about Stephen Turner, but rather someone further back in the family tree, perhaps his grandparents, or perhaps someone related to the Turners via another side of the family. No way to be certain.
Stephen Turner's parents are unknown. He lived in the Cat Fish Creek Community in his younger days, and that suggests he is a descendant of John Turner and Patience Smith who were the progenitors of the Turners of that area. They are not his parents, but could be his grandparents or great grandparents. No primary records have been found indicating who Stephen's parents were, not showing him related to any other Turner. He did live fairly close to Daniel Turner (c1796) in 1860, and Daniel named one of his sons "Stephen" so that may indicate a close relationship between them, brothers perhaps, or uncle - nephew, or at least cousins.
Census analysis is difficult due to the uncertainty of Stephen's birth date. He may have been around for the 1810 census either about four or just under a year old. William Turner (c1768) had two sons under 10 with him that year who have yet to be identified. Reuben Turner (1760/65) also had two sons that age in 1810, also unidentified. Amos Turner had one son that age, but his family is well documented and Stephen isn't his son. Amos lived in "western" Marion District in what is now Florence Co., SC, and isn't related to the Cat Fish Creek Turners.
For the 1820 census Stephen would be anywhere from age 14 (if born ca 1805/06) to age four (if born ca 1815/16). That means he could fit in two different age groups on this census, either under 10 (ca 1810/20) or aged 10-15 (ca 1804/10). John Turner (1765) had two boys aged 10-15, but they are both positively identified. Martha Turner (1784/90) had three boys under 10 and one aged 10-15. Of those only one is identified: Martin M. Turner (c1820). Reuben Turner (1760/65) had two boys 10-15, neither identified. William Turner (1768) had two boys under 10 (both identified) and one aged 10-15.
By 1830 Stephen Turner would be anywhere from 14 to 24 years old. He wasn't listed as a head of household, so he was probably still home with parents or other relatives then. He could fit in several age groups: 10-14 (ca 1815/20); 15-19 (ca 1810/15) and 20-29 (ca 1800/10). None of the Turners in the Cat Fish area had sons in their 20's, nor in the 15-19 age group. Reuben Turner (1760/65), Robert Turner (c1794) and William Turner (c1768) each had one male age 10-14 with them in 1830. Robert wasn't married early enough to have a child that age, so whomever that is with Robert probably isn't his own son, but a brother or nephew or something. William's child that age is positively identified. That leaves Reuben. In his case it is probably his grandson Martin M. Turner (c1820) listed in that age group, but one can't be positive.
The bottom line is that census analysis doesn't help to identify Stephen's parents. He could be a son of Reuben Turner (1760/65) and Dorothy Martin, or of Reuben's daughter Martha Turner (1784/90) who had several children out of wedlock. He probably isn't a son of William Turner (1768) and Catherine Martin for their children were named in a series of deeds in the 1840's and 1850's, and Stephen wasn't among them. Stephen could be a son of John Turner (1765) and Juda Hathcock. More research may help narrow it down some.
Stephen Turner married Mary Ann Cooper sometime before 1833. Her maiden was shared with me by several of Stephen's descendants. I don't know what the proof of it is, nor who her parents were. The only record I've found on the subject is the death certificate of son Stephen (Jr.) which lists his mother as Mary "Barnes." Of course death certificates are notoriously inaccurate, but sometimes it is all we have to go on.
Mary Ann was born ca 1814/15 per her age on the 1860 census (45). Her later census records were close: 54 in 1870 (ca 1815/16), and 62 in 1880 (ca 1817/18). I don't know who her parents were. There were Barnes and Cooper families in Marion early on. See my Barnes pages for more on that family. I haven't researched the Coopers as I'm not related as far as I'm aware.
http://www.martygrant.com/genealogy/turner/turner-stephen-marion.htm
I have 19 AncestryDNA matches that descend from Turner families in Marion County, South Carolina that include
9 AncestryDNA matches that are descendants of John Turner and Patience Smith
10 AncestryDNA matches that are descendants of Stephen Turner and Mary Ann Barnes
Most of them show at least 1% Sub Saharan African.
AncestryDNA rounds off ethnicities to whole number percentages.
Shared DNA unweighted shared DNA longest segment
C Parker 2% 23 cM across 1 segment 33 cM 33 cM
K.P. 2% 23 cM across 1 segment 33 cM 33 cM
w_audrey 5% 21 cM across 1 segment 32 cM 32 cM
scotlinkon 4% 16 cM across 1 segment 21 cM 21 cM
K Erb 1% 16 cM across 1 segment 22 cM 22 cM
K Snipes 3% 12 cM across 1 segment 17 cM 17 cM
P Johnson 3% 22 cM across 1 segment 32 cM 32 cM
E Hale 2% 22 cM across 1 segment 32 cM 32 cM
J Velie 0 11 cM across 1 segment 16 cM 16 cM
TIMBER removing a good portion of the segment is showing that there is a considerable "pileup" on the shared Sub Saharan African segment location on my paternal Chromosome 9. Therefore, there must be a lot more John Turner descendants that are matching me but aren't showing as a match due to AncestryDNA's TIMBER which is a special algorithm to filter out any larger pieces of identical DNA that may be shared for a reason other than a recent common ancestor. People sharing a segment 10 cM or shorter won't show as an AncestryDNA match.
One of the Stephen Turner descendants P Johnson happens to be one of my 23andme matches. She and I share a 31.64 cM segment where I have predominantly SubSaharan African segment on my paternal Chromosome 9. AncestryDNA reports that she and I share 22 cM across 1 segment. They removed almost 10 cM off my match. This indicates that AncestryDNA views that the location on my paternal Chromosome 9 is a "pileup" region. This is the first time that I learned about a specific Sub Saharan African chromosome location being subjected to Timber algorithm.
There is a strong match sharing between John Turner descendants, Stephen Turner descendants, and me. Therefore, I am very certain that Stephen Turner was one of John and Patience's descendants. Stephen was living in Marion County, South Carolina like them. He was also part Sub Saharan African like them. It's no coincidence.
One of the matches scotlinkon is also related to me through the English American Bethea and Goodman families. Both he and I descend from my paternal 6th Great Grandparents Tristram Bethea and Ann Goodman who were the maternal grandparents of my paternal English American plantation owner 4th Great Grandfather Benjamin Cross who was Grandma Mary's 2nd Great Grandfather. scotlinkon also descends from William Bethea and Sarah Goodman. William was Tristram's nephew, and Sarah Goodman was Ann Goodman's sister. Therefore, I assumed that scotlinkon and I were matching on Grandma Mary's side and not Grandpa Nolan's side. This is an example of why AncestryDNA needs to have a chromosome browser to check out matching segments. If one relies on just looking at family trees, there could be a wrong conclusion. That goes especially for family trees that are inaccurate with ancestors being connected to the wrong families.
23andme shows P. Johnson and other European Americans, some African Americans in Louisiana, and I match each other in the same location on my paternal Chromosome 9. There seems to be a connection between some African Americans in Louisiana to the Turner family in Marion County, South Carolina.
European Americans that match me on my predominantly Sub Saharan African segment on paternal Chromosome 9
P Johnson is also an AncestryDNA match to me
The two Parkers aren't closely related to each other. They show as 4th Cousins. They are the descendants of Alva Parker and Catherine Turner who was a granddaughter of John Turner and Patience Smith. Ch Patton is C Patton's daughter. S. Hursey is a descendant of Samuel Hussey and Mildred Turner who was a daughter of John Turner and Patience Smith.
all of these European Americans that me on my predominantly Sub Saharan African paternal Chromosome 9 segment have at least 1% Sub Saharan African
P Johnson 3.2% 24284921-80418336 31.64 cM
T Parker 2.0% 24284921-81121174 32.71 cM
J Parker 2.7% 24284921-80215964 31.65 cM
S Hursey 2.5 % 24290018-36307043 13.41 cM 36819706-81121174 18.17 cM
T Jones 1.9% 24290018-35464754 12.82 cM 36819706-81067137 18.46 cM
R Womack 2.8% 24284921-36307043 13.41 cM 36819706-79962308 16.96 cM
J Lane 1.5% 24284921-36307043 13.64 cM 36819706-79451522 15.74 cM
C Patton 3.6% 24290018-81121174 32.37 cM
Ch Patton 2.2% 24290018-79369163 29.89 cM
C Van Alstine 3.5% 24290018-81121174 32.37 cM
S Thomas 2.9% 24170867-81121174 32.73 cM
A. Boykin 1.4% 24170867-81143625 32.75 cM
African Americans born in Louisiana and with 4 grandparents born in Louisiana match me in the same location as the European Americans on my paternal Chromosome 9
J Mahoney 24284921-78111430 26.64 cM
W Williams 31030836-81777861 24.51 cM
K Jacquot 28056106-36137513 6.62 cM
other African Americans that match me in the same location as the European Americans on my paternal Chromosome 9
M Gomez 24284921-81773535 33.58 cM
C Rosenthall 24284921-78775570 28.41 cM
S Watson 23677964-71052762 20.82 cM
A. Roach 24284921-32583507 10.69 cM
CB 26294087-38250849 12.49 cM 71137232-82597404 14.62 cM
B Morrison 70984372 - 82080249 12.6 cM
I match a French man with a Madagascar-born paternal grandmother with a 5.19 cM segment in the same location on my paternal Chromosome 9, and it is my Filipino/Austronesian segment that is my entire 0.1% Filipino/Austronesian. He is part Malagasy. I read that E-M85 has been found in some Malagasy men in Madagascar.
B Portier 71686476 - 77713279 5.19 cM
B. Portier's matches in the same location that he matches me on Chromosome 9
J. Jobe 38409356-77713279 9.39 cM
J Mahoney 71762766-77998494 5.65 cM
C Patton 71762766-77998494 5.65 cM
Ch Patton 71745307-78111430 5.91 cM
C Rosenthal 71745307-77713279 5.17 cM
I don't know why B. Portier doesn't match all people that match me with a segment that includes 71686476 - 77713279. Some do though. One of them is S. Hursey who is a European American descendant of John Turner and Patience Smith. One of them is an African American in Louisiana. This indicates that descendants of John Turner and Patience Smith had Malagasy ancestors from Madagascar.
My blog post about my confirmed Malagasy segment
https://diversegenes.blogspot.com/2023/01/my-filipinoaustronesian-segment.html
The following is from Teresa Vega's blog:
There were roughly 1,300 enslaved Malagasy who ended up in Virginia during the 1719-1721 time period.
Please note that there was also an unknown slave ship that arrived in Virginia from Madagascar in 1686 that had 210 Malagasy onboard. This would mean around approximately 1,500 enslaved Malagasy survived the Middle Passage and took up residence in Virginia.
https://radiantrootsboricuabranches.com/part-iii-the-dna-trail-from-madagascar-to-virginia/
I wonder if my African American Louisianan DNA relative matches and I are descendants of siblings of John Turner or Patience Smith. If we actually are John Turner and Patience Smith's descendants, then at least one of their descendants had been kidnapped and brought to Louisiana! Some of John and Patience's descendants did have problems because of their ancestry. Some people even tried to deny their financial inheritance as well as accuse them of having a slave status due to John Turner being born a slave.
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